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Post by chansterling on Feb 8, 2014 9:35:24 GMT -5
Gang --
I am at an impasse.
I want to take my Neo Geo collecting to the next level, but I'm conflicted. I want to get an SNK Home Console, but I can't decide between NeoGeoCD or AES w/ MVS Converter.
I can't decide if the load times on CD are worth the price difference to the AES.
Do you guys have any suggestions or personal experience with these consoles?
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Post by neogenesis on Feb 8, 2014 11:56:09 GMT -5
I don't have any of those consoles, but if I had the money, I'd get the AES. Also, cartridge-based systems seem to be more durable than CD-based ones. Anyway, that's just my opinion.
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Post by krazywhiteguy310 on Feb 8, 2014 12:09:37 GMT -5
With my little experience the AES is for people with deep pockets. The MVS is a little more cheaper. And the CD is way less.
I am collecting MVS carts...it's cheaper and I get the same experience.
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danthor
Global Moderator 
Posts: 306 
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Post by danthor on Feb 8, 2014 12:34:59 GMT -5
Owning both an AES/MVS converter combo, and an NGCD, I think I should weigh in a bit. There's definitely a lot of pros, cons, and exclusives to both. But first, let's look at your major concern; Load times.
Personally, I've never found them unbearable, most of em are a mere 8-15 seconds between fights. There is the initial load when you pop the disc in, that's about 40 seconds, give or take. Now thaw this would break down to for say.. KoF. You'd have your initial load, then you start. Pick your team, and it loads. One fighter goes down, load. Another goes down, load. But the load is quicker than loading the initial fight, because it only needs to load one new fighter, it's already cached the background and the surviving fighter. For one on one fighters, it just loads per fight, and dependant on the game, it could be pretty quick (like Art of Fighting games, Samurai Shodown) or much longer (The Last Blade titles are famous for their loadtimes) But there's still options. There's options in a lot of games you can tweak in the menus to minimize loads even further (Example, The Last Blade. Turn off demo cut, and you've taken out an entirely different load to show story elements between fights. Yes those are 2 separate loads).
The timeframes I'm roughing here are based on a typical NGCD toploader. An NG CDZ, however. Those are MUCH faster at loading. I compared the Last Blade games for loading, in the toploader, it was between 40-45 seconds of loading in between fights. On a CDZ, never more than 15 seconds. A very significant distance! But this only applies to fighters. Literally every other kind of game (Metal Slug, Neo Turf Masters, Magician Lord, Mutation Nation) the Loading is minimal. Virtually nonexistant, apart from that initial load) But the NGCD, whichever unit you choose, has it's own merits for owning one compared to its cartridge counterpart. The first major difference being Audio. The Sound effects are cleaner, and all the music is completely new instrumental arrangments, as opposed to the midi music found on carts. Not to diminish the awesome music on carts, of course! But hearing Billy Kane's theme come screaming out of an actual guitar is just amazing. Also, For non fighters where the loading is very negligigble, these soundtracks alone make me -prefer- the CD versions over their cart counterparts. Another, would be that it supports S-Video out natively, where the AES requires either modding, or an X-Neo1 attatchment. Another rather large difference, would be that the NGCD has built in memory to save your game. The AES requires a memory card bought in addition to the console in order to save. Cost of gaming of course is another nice perk. For instance, I paid no more than 15$ for every KoF I own for it, and I paid 50$ shipped for both Last Blade games. You won't get deals like that on cartridge. But now, I'll compare that to cart setups.
The biggest hurdle to come across for AES/MVS converter setup, is the startup cost. A good converter won't be cheap, anticipate about $300 on top of your system purchase. (Protip: Do not get either the Phantom, or Daedalus. They are well built, and have high compatibility, but their design in which the MVS cart is mounted causes strain on the AES board. Get a Super MVS, or Magic Key. The Magic Key is honestly the best converter currently available. I use and swear by it!) Which DOES seem like a quite a bit, but if you buy even ONE Metal Slug MVS cart compared to the AES price, the converter has already paid for itself several times over in savings. The converter is also a beautiful tool of flexibility that not only lets you have exclusives not available on AES (Shock Troopers, for example) But simply buy MVS carts of games where the AES cart price is unreasonable (Metal Slug) One of the best first purchases you can make is an MVS Multicart. Gives you a GREAT seletion of games to play and get your fix, while you plan out the rest of your cart purchases at a reasonable rate. Also, the cart market fluctuates with irregularity in both formats. For example, right now many of the cheap NeoGeo staples are actually CHEAPER on AES than they are on MVS (Examples: Magician Lord, The Super Spy, Nam1975)
As for durability, I do gotta say the jewel cases for NGCD games are kinda fragile, but the system itself it built like a tank, and REALLY easy to fix and mod. Now the biggest thing you're gonna face here, is whichever you choose, your missing out on exclusives. Go with CD, you won't have Blazing Star, Mark of the Wolves, or any Metal Slug after 2. Go with carts, you lose Zintrick (if puzzlers are your thing), Crossed Swords 2 (a BAD ASS GAME) and more. Bottom line being, where you've decided to take it to the next level, you'll own them all eventually. It's how it ends. It's merely a matter of which format you choose first.
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Post by Darth Gecko on Feb 8, 2014 16:22:20 GMT -5
I considered getting a MVS or NGCD, my thoughts... I LOVE the look of the NGCD, but as these machines are aging, my concern was hardware failure and sourcing replacements may get increasingly harder and more expensive. The NGCD has many moving parts which means many points of potential failure. I have seen replacement CD components on eBay but whether fitting would be trivial or if those parts remain available should be a consideration.
On the other hand, the main point of wear on an MVS would only be the cartridge slot.
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Post by chansterling on Feb 8, 2014 21:47:52 GMT -5
Dan - I cannot begin to explain how much I appreciate your in-depth analysis between the two consoles. That was so incredible helpful! Almost all of my questions and concerns were addressed. You're simply straight-up a gentleman, and I thank you for it.
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Post by Darth Gecko on Feb 9, 2014 9:06:26 GMT -5
So what do you think you will go for? I'm facing the same decision as you, I've ruled out an AES, so it's either the MVS or Neo Geo CD.
At the moment, although an MVS board can be affordable, it seems to require some effort to get it up and running in terms of sourcing a power supply, controllers and an enclosure of some kind to protect it.
I've seen NGCDs ready to play with some games for 150 quid. Plus games can be burned on a CDR and played AFAIK without needing to mod the unit. I don't think that applies to the CDZ though. (Someone please correct me if I've got any of my facts wrong)
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Post by crujones4life on Feb 9, 2014 10:23:09 GMT -5
You can burn games and play on CD (CDZ is possible too with some kind of patch). However burned games will usually give an error after playing them for anywhere from a few minutes to sometimes much longer. The error message always pops up when loading is happening and the laser is trying to read the disk. It is thought that playing burned games shortens the life of the cd lens. I have burned copies of every cd game. I play them sparingly and mainly use them as a tool to decide which games to buy.
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Post by Darth Gecko on Feb 9, 2014 11:01:43 GMT -5
I've heard it can damage the laser, are there any definitive facts about that? I used burned CDs for various things for years and never had a drive die because of it, or is the problem a flaw with the drive on the NGCD?
The only thing I've come across is scientific research that the lifespan of discs is nothing like what was predicted years ago, burned discs even less.
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Post by krazywhiteguy310 on Feb 10, 2014 0:16:32 GMT -5
I don't see how a burned disc can shorten a lasers life. It either reads the disc or it doesn't. Sorry about that rant.
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Post by crujones4life on Feb 10, 2014 0:23:13 GMT -5
I don't see how a burned disc can shorten a lasers life. It either reads the disc or it doesn't. Sorry about that rant. I don't either. But I think in the past with old drives people would burn at faster than recommended speeds which would lead to a crappy burn which the neo cd would have to work harder to read or some crap like that. True or not this has always been the general consensus and plenty of people have had their lenses/drives fail...maybe they're just shitty. |
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Post by krazywhiteguy310 on Feb 10, 2014 0:59:26 GMT -5
It could just be wear and tear really. Electronics arent meant to last forever.
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Post by omgngx on Feb 10, 2014 2:46:27 GMT -5
CMVS/MVS, best experience vs cost. AES games are just too much for me to wrap my head around. I'm the kinda person who will want to eventually collect every game available, and just knowing that someday I'm gonna have to plop down $1000 for Metal Slug was enough to make me sell my AES and just stick with MVS (for $1000 I can score two or more MVS cabs!). I have over 50 MVS games, and even the ones that go for alot I have managed to get for pretty cheap (legit Garou for $30!). I have noticed that since the X has come out, the prices of all Neo-Geo games have gone way up. Look up bit-rot (data on discs will not last nearly as long as physical chips) and you will only want to collect cartridges... 30 years from now those Neo-Geo CDs might not work at all (even with perfect working hardware).
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Post by Darth Gecko on Feb 10, 2014 5:36:44 GMT -5
That's a really valid point, everyone here is basically a collector and preservation of data long term is something we should all consider, whether its optical, hard disk or cartridge media. In a way, we all need to think how we will preserve our data for future generations. It's amazing to think how far we've come but are still unable to create media that will last potentially for centuries. Even the Sumerian's 'media' in clay tablets have stood the test of time.
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Post by rob7979 on Dec 27, 2014 3:09:04 GMT -5
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